this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.
any one have a clear answer for me?
did jesus revile?
The truth insulted them.
If that were the case, then why did Jesus have to resort to calling them gnats, vipers, tell them they were going to Hell, etc? (Hmmm, Xian debating tactics are actually starting to make sense now: they're just following in the Lord's footsteps!)
If the truth was the point, he should've just calmly explained his point, using non-belittling terms, and left it at that.
One thing is for certain: he definitely got his temper from his Father!
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KS: So what does "turning away" imply? repentence on the part of the Ninevites? - your thoughts?
That's exactly what they did: they showed signs of remorse, with even the King of Ninevah stepping down from his throne and sitting in ashes, wearing sack-cloths, etc, signs of grief. Heck, they even dressed up their animals to wear clothing of shame (and what sin exactly did THEY do, to need to feel remorse)!
That made God "Happy", not "Sad", and hence He didn't do what was threatened.
The moral of the story seems remarkably similar to Job: I'm God, and I get to do what I want!! You don't like it, then YOU go find another Universe and become it's God... (Although God didn't get all bossy with Jonah, like he did with Job, starting in with the verbal strip-down, "Where we YOU when I did so-and-so?")
my concordance searches indicate eve is mentioned twice in the ot and twice in the new.
i guess elsewhere in genesis she must be the wife or the woman.
interesting: since she was the only woman in the world and adam was the only man, i wonder how husband and wife as terminology were invented?
In current day astrology there is a dis-connect between dates and signs of about one sign, so whenever one uses the convention for locating stars in the sky based on calendar "signs", it's good to use windage in aiming.
I had a good laugh when they introduced a "lost" zodiac sign about two years ago, and alot of people found out they really weren't the sign they thought they were their entire lives. It was pretty funny, as some got REALLY upset....
I don't remember any accounts of the ancient Hebrews investing nearly as much energy in observing the sky as their Mesopotamian neighbors - or leaving considerable astronomical records. Hence, that's why I would be inclined to say theirs Babylonian derived rather than vice versa. As to Babylonian astrology, I that was a rather late development, but also a consequence of collecting a lot of data and trying to correlate it with something.
Remember though, the torah was compliled whilst in exile in Babylon, right before it fell. So there was opportunity to "update" it to jibe with the latest findings of their astronomical experts, and in fact the Babylonian influence might have been what they were trying to avoid (I don't know that for a fact, but it's plausible, given the battle they were facing with other "corrupt" and different beliefs threatening to mix into Judaism).
my concordance searches indicate eve is mentioned twice in the ot and twice in the new.
i guess elsewhere in genesis she must be the wife or the woman.
interesting: since she was the only woman in the world and adam was the only man, i wonder how husband and wife as terminology were invented?
Not quiet the Bible never condemns astrology, it condemns other astrologers.
Hence why I said it condemned other practices, not that it condemned astrology, per se. It condoned it's OWN form of astrology.
But we're basically saying the same thing: there were Hebraic cults in existence which worshipped in ways unapproved of by the authors of the Torah (eg Asherah worship, snake worship, Sun/star worship, etc), and their job was to stamp out these "pagan" forms of worship, or not allow them to enter into wider acceptance via syncretism.
The classic example being found in Matthew the so called Gospel to the jews uses astrology in its Star of Bethelem to convince fellow Jews that the stars point to Jesus. Its particular strange if astrology is evil and wrong that God would use this device to pronounce his son. This is of cours eis never explored and explained satisfactorily. Xians simply adopt the stars as good, which means they accept astrology as a "tool" or dvice of god, while JWs try their best to pretend it was Satan. How a star points to a single house is never explained.
Yup, the Star of Bethlehem is a syncretistic element that's been staring Xians in their face since their childhoods, and they never thought to wonder who the 3 Wise Men were, where they came from, or what the Gift of the Magi is all about (of course, Magi is where the word "magic" comes from; JWs are taught that magic is EVIL, and are taught to SHUN it, so they never learn about the Zoroasterian roots of their belief system). Interesting that the name Zoroaster contains the word "astro-" meaning "star"; they were associated with star-worship.
Zoroastrian philosophy influenced Judaism and Greek philosophies, esp after Darius conquered Greece, Babylon, etc and they all sent their representatives to the Capitol in Persia, so plenty of opportunity for cross-pollenation of ideas.
To put it simply these priests want allthe religious business from the locals, they dont want competition. Its fine to sacrifice but you must come to us and not the pagans even if we build the same temples w/ the same religious significance present in them. For example the temple in Jerusalem,is not unique many other temples w/ similar exact plans and orientation have been found. We have the same thing with t he WTS and its hatred of other xianity. They both claim to read the Bible in their own way but the WTS wants you to visit their establishments and give them money and not the competition.
You're preaching to the choir, my friend. The Torah was the single-most important non-secular Job Creation Project ever written, ensuring a livelihood for priests in the Temple, who demanded a pound of flesh for every animal slaughtered in Israel; otherwise the owner committed a grave sin. It's all about power and control, and the stuggle amongst competing factions (priests, rabbis, Kings, etc). As you say, it's all about following the sheckel.
Interesting bit about the Urim and Thummin: perhaps the Elders should have a Ouiji Board present, to help them out when deciding to disfellowship someone? It would be perfectly consistent with the Hebrew practices they hold as sacrosanct, LOL!
I've always found it interesting that the Intelligent Designer didn't understand the basics of human anatomy, instead allowing himself to be quoted by "Moses" as referring to "evil thoughts in the hearts of men". The Hebrews literally believed the heart WAS the organ of cognition, as were other organs of the torso. The kidneys were considered the organs of decision-making, and hence why they were valued as a sacrifical guilt offering. Hence, God instructed that they offer animal kidneys to mitigate sinning, and not the animal's brain (which would make sense, if God knew the role of the organs).
And the brain, you ask? What was it's role, the pinnacle of God's creation, the center of congition for man? Hebrews thought it was the seat of the life-generative force (ruah), and the cerebrospinal fluid found in the head traveled down the spinal cord to enter the testicles, as sperm. They thought the brain was basically a huge testicle, producing life-giving fluids...
You'd think the Divine Creator might've taken a moment to let them in on the loop, vs telling the how to cut their hair to his satisfaction...
A fascinating book on the subject of how ancient men from various cultured viewed their world is RB Onion's "Origins of European Thought". The more you know about their basic beliefs, the more proof that it's all a big (yet very old) lie, perpetuated by those who are too lazy to look into it (or don't WANT to look into it, to excuse having to change).
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Simon, I addressed that on pg 2, quoting from 3:11.
the scene is familiar.. a jehovah's witness family with one member who has awakened from the lie.. the split comes down to an interesting wrong terminology:.
unbelieving mate vs believing mate.. .
the context of the entire family is as a jehovah's witness family.. damage has already been done.
Great post, Terry! I'm sure it will prove helpful to many, so thanks for sharing.
this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.
any one have a clear answer for me?
did jesus revile?
If Jesus said those words to someone else on the JWN forum, he'd be violating the following rules:
But since he's The Son of God, it's like he knows Daddy will bail him out of a jam. :)
So it's okay to insult others if it's done righteously? Some JWs say "If it's deserved, then it's okay". Interesting.
Why am I thinking of a child who calls their brother Johnny an idiot in retaliation, and gets called on the carpet by Mom.
Child: "But Johnny called me an idiot first!"
To which Mom says, "Remember that Jesus said to turn the other cheek..."
Child: "You mean like he did with the Pharisees and Scribes?"
Mom: "But they DESERVED IT!"
(child looks up to her in wonderment, at her complete lack of cognitive dissonance).
I know exactly how you feel, COBE. I care too much for my family to let this tear them apart. It's better to slow down, and blame it on your health.
The problem is, being forced to live in limbo takes a toll, and has negative physical and mental consequences, feeling like you don't "own" your own life. Some eventually do not have to fake an illness, becuase it may actually become reality due to the stress.... :(
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Jonah demonstrates that there is a way for a prophet to keep his credibility even when he is wrong.
Would that make Jonah the Messiah of Jehovah's Witnesses, even giving Jesus Himself a run for his money for the title of "failed prophet"?
Well done on putting it to the elders, but they won't forgive you for it. It's just a matter of time before they get rid of you now.
Yup, it's a flagrant violation of the lost 11th commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Be a Cheeky Little Monkey With Elders!"
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Jonah 3:11 sez:
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
God is allowed to change his mind (via "regret") when He's demonstrating His Amazing Grace and Infinite Mercy.
However, He's also immutable, which means He cannot change His mind, per 1 Samuel 15:29:
"And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind."
Ehhh, just don't think about it: it'll make your life MUCH easier as a JW.
PS regret is a 'surprise' emotion, hence inconsistent for an omniscient being who knows future events (I like to say that someone cannot sneak up on God and go, "BOO!!" to elicit a startle response from Him, since God already knows you're coming).
Like I say, don't think about that one, either.... Get behind me, Logic! (eh, I mean Satan!)
